It's All Just Marketing: Episode 7

AI Discussion Continued…How AI is Changing Paid Advertising


In this episode of It’s All Just Marketing, Helium SEO’s CEO, Tim Warren and CTO, Paul DeMott continue their discussion of how AI is changing marketing. In their previous episode, they talked about how AI is disrupting search marketing, so today, the discussion revolves around AI’s disruption of paid advertising. Topics include how to win by using ad copy, improved creative and better testing, how important attribution tracking will be and how to better implement value of conversions. Tim and Paul draw from their years of experience in digital marketing to provide valuable insights and practical tips on how to create successful marketing campaigns in today’s ever-changing digital world. Whether you’re a seasoned marketer or just starting out, It’s All Just Marketing, provides you with the information you need to be successful. Thanks for listening!

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Tim Warren: Hey guys, welcome back to the It’s All Just marketing podcast. Today, I have our co-founder at Helium, Paul DeMott, back on the podcast by Popular Demand. Paul, welcome back to the podcast.

Paul DeMott: Thanks for having me back.

Tim Warren: Yeah, the first one was great, man. We got a lot of great feedback.

Paul DeMott: That was a while ago.

Tim Warren: It was. It was a long time ago and we had a lot of really good feedback from it. So we want to have you back on.

Paul DeMott: Yeah. 

Tim Warren: And, and last time we talked about how search and AI. Right. What’s going to change and how AI is going to get involved in changing the world of search. And we think major things are coming right so we believe brands need to be ready because as Google tries to compete with OpenAI and ChatGPT and is Bing fully integrated ChatGPT. I mean, for the first time ever, I was talking to our marketing director, Andrew, and we were talking through this and he said, I mean, he was talking to his wife. For the first time ever he said, Bing is more enjoyable to use than Google, which is really crazy. That was not something I think I thought I would ever say. In fact 3 or 4 years ago it was if you bought a Windows phone, how do I get Bing search off of here? Because it’s so annoying. It doesn’t give me good answers.

Paul DeMott: The first search that most people have on Internet Explorer is how do I download Chrome.

Tim Warren: 100%?

Paul DeMott: And then the first when you do chrome, it defaults to Google. But if you have Internet Explorer, it’s like, how do I change my search engine to Google.

Tim Warren: Do you know the number one search keyword in Bing is Google?

Paul DeMott: Oh really?

Tim Warren: Yep. Yep. People trying to go to Google.

Paul DeMott: We should look and see that started to switch now. That’d be a good measure of the success. Yeah. 

Tim Warren: That’s a really good idea. Like that would be really interesting if that has like shifted to be now the top search in Google is Bing or ChatGPT.

Paul DeMott: I bet ChatGPT is up there.

Tim Warren: That’s got to feel bad. That’s got to feel really bad.

Paul DeMott: Yeah.

Tim Warren: Yeah. It’s like your ex-girlfriend calling you for your or it’s like your current girlfriend calling your ex-girlfriend number or something, something like that, where it’s like, gotta feel bad, right?

Paul DeMott: They had like a massive moat, like complete dominance of the space. 

Tim Warren: Yeah

Paul DeMott: And now there’s like, there’s a real risk on the table here for them.

Tim Warren: It really, really is. Yeah. So today what I want to talk about, Paul, and this is questions we get from clients and I think it’s questions for marketers in general, which is AI is going to disrupt organic search. We know that and it already is. But how is AI going to disrupt paid? Because a lot of companies and our clients and marketers we know and partners, a lot of companies rely very heavily on paid ads as their lead generation or their sales generation strategy. Right. And I don’t blame them for it. It makes total sense, and we understand that. And as a company, we do paid ads management. So we believe in it as well. But AI, of course, is a little more in the background there. But what is going to change, do you think? What’s coming down the pike with ads and AI and what’s going to change?

Paul DeMott: Yeah. So I think there’s going to be a lot that’s that will change with especially some of the stuff we talked about last time, such as like Google answering questions in the query. But I also think a lot has already changed. And so the AI, the impact of AI is already starting to be seen in ads. So I can already talk to like what a lot of these changes are. The good news is that I think the vast majority of like $40 Billion that Google makes is coming from paid ads. So I don’t think they’re going to, you know, use ChatGPT or technology to cannibalize that paid ad stuff. So if an advertiser is willing to pay for a keyword term, they’re probably still going to put it above whatever AI generated results show up.

Tim Warren: Okay.

Paul DeMott: The other thing is, you know, most people, if you’re running a good ads campaign, are focused on lower funnel terms anyway. So a lot of the stuff that I talked about last time in organic search keywords that now are going to get replaced with just AI answers, those don’t tend to be what advertisers are actually running for anyway. Most of the focus is on what are terms that people are going to type right before they purchase or terms that are relatively close to the bottom. 

Tim Warren: Right. 

Paul DeMott: So in terms of the actual search engine page, I think that advertisers aren’t going to see a lot of change there. But I think really where AI is making huge strides in the last year or so is in their ability to serve up ads to the right people. So, you know, if you go back a couple of years on Google ads or Facebook ads, a lot of the success of the campaign actually was dependent on how good was the advertiser themselves at narrowing down from a large data set, the types of people that are good customers. So, you know, having things like client avatars, like ideal client profiles, things like that. Could be used and, you know, juxtaposed nets to data to figure out who should you actually advertise to. And so it’s kind of it’s kind of sad. But people that were really good at that craft. You know, it’s those skills matter less because now the AI is starting to take over that.

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: So really what’s changing now is that the AI is getting way better at like starting broad and honing in on specifically who your customers are. And they’re doing this with machine learning that just has access to far more data points than a person can even comprehend. So even if you’re a really good advertiser, there’s just too much stuff to juggle mentally to be able to think through all of this.

Tim Warren: Oh yeah.

Paul DeMott: Not to mention none of the platforms actually share this to you. So, you know, Google and Facebook both have these huge databases of data points on every single user. You know what they can tell like when you’re in the market to buy a car, when you’re in the market, like when you’re going to have a baby soon. Like they have all these data points and their machine learning algorithms allow them to look at all of these variables together to basically predict who is going to buy. And they’ve become very good at predicting who is going to buy a service. So now when you sign up for a Google ad and you run some of their AI bidding algorithms, you know, once they’ve collected enough data. They are successfully predicting exactly who they need to put your ad in front of in order for you to get a purchase. So the good news, I think, you know, it’s the the news on the SEO front is a little bit more gloomy because, you know, these changes are going to have huge ramifications. But on the ads front, what’s really good because Google wants to make so much more money out of this is that they’re actually getting better at delivering leads for clients. And one thing I’ve been telling clients is if you ran ads in, you know, anywhere from 2000 to 2022 and it didn’t work for you, you should revisit you should try it again because there’s been so much advancement in a short period of time on these AI algorithms and their effectiveness at generating leads that I’ve seen a lot of companies that didn’t have success before start running these and now start to generate a lot of leads.

Tim Warren: Now that’s great. And there’s I mean, there’s ten different roads. We could go down with that, right? This could be a five hours long. But let me pick a couple that I think just from conversations I’ve had with companies and other marketers that I think might appeal to our audience the most. So the first question is, is AI bidding algorithms and using AI, the AI targeting? Right? I think historically one of the challenges we’ve seen with clients is Google’s teams, their salespeople, wherever they’re located in the world, calling clients and telling them to put everything on broad match. And historically that’s been really bad, right? Normally you would think of broad match as a very quick way to waste money, right? Is that changing now? Is is broad match better now because of Google’s targeting efforts or is broad match still a bad idea for most advertisers?

Paul DeMott: So good question. And I would say it’s probably gotten worse. Worse than it used to be.

Tim Warren: Interesting.

Paul DeMott: Worse. There’s things that have gotten worse and there’s things that have gotten better. What I was going to say, though, is that I think the reason why Google has besides wanting to make more money, I think the reason why Google has always pushed people towards Broad is that they want everyone to adopt the same sort of setup because it allows their them to collect more data. So when advertisers are really like narrowly targeting specific keywords, they’re just collecting way more per person. So my guess is that like within Google, they are telling all of their sales reps push broad because it helps us collect more data, which in the future will let us generate more leads.

Tim Warren: So do you. You mentioned Otto. And I want to stay on that for a second because that’s really interesting. Something here, which is Google has so much more data than than you do or the typical dealership or the typical, you know, even, you know, service, you know, like a Right. Google has far more data than those companies do because billions and billions and billions of searches. Right. And all the data goes through it. So let me ask this, though. If Google is starting to get really good from looking at your search history and your demographics and all the different stuff to understand when you’re ready to buy a car. So they know when to serve up the ads. Right. If they’re getting that good. What should advertisers know? Because most car dealerships that we work with, I mean, I don’t think I know a single one who does their own ads internally. They pay an outsourced firm to do it for them. Whether it’s Venture or Helium or it’s or whoever. And then those ads professionals are going to go in. They’re going to set up performance max or maximize conversions, and they’re going to put in the data and they’re going to let it run. Should you trust the algorithm put it in maybe not broad match, but put it in phrase match or exact match, boom, and then trust the algorithm or how much manipulation should go into it. If Google really does have more data and it’s better at it, what’s really the job of an ads manager now?

Paul DeMott: Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I would say that it’s not yet to the point where a company could just turn it on and it would produce leads.

Tim Warren: Okay.

Paul DeMott: The job of the ads manager has shifted in time. So the job used to be, you know, like manually identify keywords that are working really well, you know, looked at bidding, manually adjust the bids so that you’re winning that one a certain percentage of the time.

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: It’s shifted away from that to more. So how well does your ads manager know what to input into the AI algorithms? It’s one of those things where, you know, trash in, trash out. Which is when clients will set this up themselves and they don’t have that expertise, that’s typically what happens. Is they they construct a really bad campaign from the start. And then the whole thing just never works well. So the things that really matter now are, one, you have to have very good tracking on your website.

Tim Warren: Okay.

Paul DeMott: And you want to track as close as you can to like real revenue numbers as possible because you can actually feed back into the Google algorithms. The your the amount of money that that person paid you so that it can use that information to make better decisions about how to serve up your ads

Tim Warren: Is that setting up conversion and value of conversions in AdWords? Is that how you do it or will it work? If you do an analytics as well.

Paul DeMott: You can do both. Yeah.

Tim Warren: And Google will pull the two pieces of data.

Paul DeMott: You can choose which way to to do it. Yeah.

Tim Warren: Okay. I feel like so few companies do that. Like when I look.

Paul DeMott: It’s surprising.

Tim Warren: How most companies analytics they do not put in a I mean unless it’s an e-commerce company like almost nobody puts a value to conversions.

Paul DeMott: And if you think about it, if you tell so so you’re basically you have this machine learning algorithm that’s kind of like at your disposal to control, if you tell it to optimize a conversion goal that really doesn’t mean much to you or doesn’t translate to real business, then it’s just going to keep, you know, like it might identify a single keyword that gets that one goal over and over again. 

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: It’s going to focus all of your budget there and it’s going to waste a ton of money. So that’s like piece number one, is that you need somebody who’s making sure that the you know what, we’re telling this AI algorithm to orient itself around and optimize towards is actually the right thing.

Tim Warren: The right Conversions.

Paul DeMott: So that’s that’s really big. The other thing is like this this kind of goes back to the earlier point about broad match. So where it’s gone really bad is that Google has made broad match, more broad, they’ve made phrase match more broad, and they’ve made exact match more broad. So as an ads manager, you used to be able to say like, I just want to run for this term because I’ve over years have learned that this term is all that matters. 

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: Now, that term might show up like for 50 to 10 to 50 different variations. So when you build your campaign, the problem that most people get wrong and if they’re not experienced ad manager is that they just build too broad of a campaign where Google is starting. If you think about what their algorithms are doing, they’re starting broad and then they’re narrowing in more and more on your target customer. But if you start this broad, it just never can find any success. No consistent success. Because every week, every month, you’re showing up for completely different terms. It’s completely random. So a lot of how you build the campaign shapes the campaign’s ability to solve the problem for you.

Tim Warren: Yeah, that makes sense. So a couple of takeaways then is while Google is moving the direction of continuously getting better and better driving leads. A. You have to program in conversions properly and you should put values to each conversion so Google understands how much each conversion is worth to you. And so it can selectively, you know, push towards those conversions. B. You mentioned that we’re still not there yet. And so the human intervention is still necessary in the ad platform, especially in Google ads platform to get it correct. You need someone watching that. So if you’re a company that doesn’t have that or the person you think is watching is not a true expert. You still need that because it’s not yet to a place where you can just go like Angie’s List, turn it on and get leads, right? It’s not quite that simple, but yet the platform Google is massive. It is the biggest, right? So being there is really important, but it’s not yet to a set it and forget it level.

Paul DeMott: Yep, 100%. And then the other thing I’d say this is where an ads manager plays a big role, but also not just an ads manager, but like an open dialogue between client and ads manager is around which terms matter. Because if you picture it if you give it a huge broad keyword list, they don’t really know. Google doesn’t really know what your company sells. They’re just looking at the number of people that convert, right? So, you know, usually people only convert when they’re good customers, but there’s a lot of bots. There’s a lot of just things that, you know, all these reasons. Also for a lot of companies, for example, that we work with, there are different buyer profiles of people that fill out their enquiry form. So for example, they might only sell services to large enterprise companies that are willing to pay a lot of money. But the same people that search that keyword also are small businesses that search for the same types of trainings. Like say, you know, say it’s a training and because both people search for it. Google doesn’t actually know unless you can communicate this with conversion values. 

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: That one searcher is actually bad and another searcher is good because they’re just going off the keyword data. So there’s a lot that an ads manager can do. Like what you’re trying to do is as an ads manager is if you understand the basics of what the AI is doing, you’re you can set it up to succeed or set it up to fail.

Tim Warren: And one thing, that makes a lot of sense, Paul, and one thing that you said that I want to spend a few more minutes on is the very beginning when we talked about what’s AI going to disrupt. And what it what it sounded a lot like is AI is going to disrupt the building of audiences to make that part much better. But if they disrupt and make that part much better, it’s going to disrupt how much human intervention is required because essentially it’s going to be, trust us. Put the money in the tool and trust us to to to match it to audience. Right. Versus the human intervention is like, no, I’m going to do a $2 max bid on this keyword. And this one is like, so where there used to be a lot. So much more was you could tweak control.

Paul DeMott: Yeah. 

Tim Warren: Right. I kind of think it’s almost like the difference between PC and Mac, whereas PC it’s like you can swap out anything, your Ram this and this, but then you might end up with a ram and a motherboard and a chipset that do not really work well together and the thing fails even though it’s technically way higher horsepower than that Mac. Whereas in this mac, everything was built to the same factory all to work together. And so it’s just flawless and crashes far less often.

Paul DeMott: Yeah.

Tim Warren: And so I think that I feel like that’s going to happen with paid where it’s going to get to a place where ads managers are less required to go in and press all the buttons and use that deep expertise. You know just like as cars continue to evolve, right? Like, yes, a very, very good driver can know with these weather conditions, with these tires on this car, I can slide this much. But now it’s all into computers where it’s like I’m gonna turn on electronic stability control and it’s going to do all of that for me. And every second, no matter what, turn I’m in, it’s going to run all the calculations. And a very average driver can now control a vehicle very easily because it does all the math for them.

Paul DeMott: Yeah.

Tim Warren: Is that kind of the direction you think its going.

Paul DeMott: Yeah.

Tim Warren: Okay.

Paul DeMott: And I think, too, that it makes complete sense. Like the simpler you make it, the more people that sign up for an account. And then too, what we’re seeing is the AI is getting a lot better when you when you do set up the right campaign. So what that means too, is that you’ll need less expertise to set up an account, which means more people are going to set up accounts, which is great for Google in the end.

Tim Warren: Yeah. So given all that, the next direction I want to go is for the clients who are expert marketers and they say, okay, Google is going to get simpler and easier to use, but how do I win? Right? Because now if everybody can do it. And it doesn’t require as much expertise, how do I win? Right. So a couple of questions I want to ask as we go in this direction is so now how does a savvy marketer win if everybody’s going to start using broad match and letting Google’s AI do the work on the ad side and the audiences are going to be better. What do you do to be better? How do you win?

Paul DeMott: Yeah. So a couple of things. So one, use AI to your advantage. So AI is you can now use a tool like ChatGPT. You can plug in like all the details about your client or about your website, and then you can have it create variations of ad copy that follow different advertising principles. So a really good thing is you still need to feed it like text copy or visual information. So the people that are going to win are going to be the people that are rotating ad copy more and more.

Tim Warren: So worry less about tweaking every single ad buy and algorithm and worry more about better ad copy, better creative.

Paul DeMott: Give the AI more like more to play with? So then it can test more and it can find better variations. But also ads is a moving target. So.

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: You know, once something is working, you can’t just set it on autopilot. And you’d be surprised, too, how many companies like haven’t like rotated any of their ad creative in like many years because it’s worked decently for them.

Tim Warren: So they leave it.

Paul DeMott: So rotating it more and more.

Tim Warren: And there’s a dis incentivization where if they have a company managing their ads and it’s working pretty well, you don’t want to be the one that comes in and says, Let’s try new things. Results go down a lot. You get fired.

Paul DeMott: Sometimes you’re more likely to like mess it up than you are to improve it, right? So there’s strategies on how to do that. The  thing and this comes back to another point that like you have in your control that so many companies get wrong is the tracking. Like if you can get the tracking as close to real revenue dollars as possible, feeding back into Google, then you’re giving this super powered AI, just way more Intel to make decisions off of.

Tim Warren: Why do companies stink at that?

Paul DeMott: Because usually it’s a factor of just how sophisticated your technology as an organization is. So to be able to track like you just have a lot of different component pieces where you have to be able to track all the way through. So it means that like, you know, inbound leads, connects to the websites, connects to CRM, connects to Salesforce, and then salesperson sells a deal, keeps track of it. This is for a service business that is.

Tim Warren: Yeah Right. 

Paul DeMott: And this is where you see it like least utilized in service businesses. But there’s just so many steps and there’s like all these different types of pieces that go together that it’s a big investment to get all of that right. And so sometimes HIPAA compliance, there’s like all these other factors.

Tim Warren: Right. 

Paul DeMott: Yeah. And then everybody like is on Salesforce has their own way of doing Salesforce. So it’s hard to find somebody that can sit in the middle and and correct it. Where do you see this done best Is Ecom like Ecom crushes everybody else because the systems that they build their websites on, Magento, Shopify have this stuff built in. 

Tim Warren: Right. 

Paul DeMott: And so it’s very easy to pass that information back to Google. And like when we run Ecom clients, it’s like you can just see like massive ROI.

Tim Warren: Right. 

Paul DeMott: And you can just keep fine tuning it more and more.

Tim Warren: And so I guess the takeaway, if you’re a service business, try to become more like an e-commerce business where you really track all this all the way down to true conversion value so that you can reprogram Google’s algorithm on the ad side of what makes you the most money so they can better target those audiences. But also then internally you can understand what you are really, truly getting, like what your ROAs is. Yeah, because if you don’t understand your return on ad spend on these individual campaigns, like how do you know what to turn on, what to turn off.

Paul DeMott: It’s wild. You’re just guessing. Companies will spend tens of thousands of dollars a month for management, for SEO services and all of this stuff. Right. But then they’ll get like a bill or like a proposal to set up all this tracking and it will be too expensive for them.

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: But then, like, if they got that piece right before they before they hired SEO, before they hired ads and they made sure that they had all that data, it would just make their campaign so much more effective. So there’s a weird thing in the industry where people are just way more ready to pay for providers than they are to get the tracking set up. And so a lot of times, like we, for example, provide the tracking, like we help companies set that up so your providers can set that up. But, you know, I think the other thing is, I think this is another phenomenon going on, but like you have the marketing and then you have like sales. And because these platforms are crossed so many different teams and require so many people sign offs, it’s very hard to get all the tracking set up because the teams just with companies, it’s difficult to get all the teams to kind of work together to make it happen.

Tim Warren: I have one other theory, too, Paul. Which I think because I agree with you 100%. It’s kind of this idea of working media and non working media, right, where you want as much of the budget to go to working media that truly drives leads versus the non working media where it’s like getting ready to get ready, right? Like all the work to. Drive leads, but you want less of your money spent on that. I have a theory too, which is the reason people don’t want to pay for the tracking, but they will readily pay for ad spend. And the management of ads is because most marketers believe in their gut and their gut tells them this is what our good leads are. This is what’s driving it. This is what isn’t driving it. Even if we don’t have the data to support it, I think we get afraid. We’re going to spend a lot of money on technology that will come back and tell me exactly what I thought already was happening.

Paul DeMott: Yeah. 

Tim Warren: And it’s like we spent all this money, right? But that’s my theory. But I think why we as marketers have to move away from that and we have to trust the data. Is that A, you could be wrong. The data could show you something that’s completely different than you expected. B You can do that, but then you become the bottleneck because you become the gut instinct that says, Well, I think these leads are good or that lead, or I’ll talk to my sales team and get it from Salesforce or whatever. It’s not, it’s not done scalably. So then to your point, you’re never being able to feed that back into Google. And so your campaigns are always going to be average because your audience will never improve, it’ll never be able to improve targeting.

Paul DeMott: And I say too, like it’s funny, but like over the years, I’ve learned more and more that my gut instinct on which ad that I create is going to perform the best is more often wrong than right. I mean, there’s instances like, like a basic example is say you’re a lawn mowing company and you’ve got one guy who’s got like just a website that looks like it was built in like the year 2000. And you’ve got another company that had like a designer make it perfect, really nice. And it’s the old 2000 website that converts. And the thing that you missed is just that people don’t want to pay like a huge premium to have their lawn cut. So you find out there’s all these random variables.

Tim Warren: I expect the guy with the crappy site is going to be cheaper.

Paul DeMott: Right. 

Tim Warren: And I want the cheap lawn care because what’s the difference.

Paul DeMott: Everyone wants to save money. They want to get a deal on their lawn mowing. They don’t.

Tim Warren: Want it. Interesting.

Paul DeMott: Yeah.

Tim Warren: So then they convert better on the crappy site because I assume the landscaping is going to be way more fairly priced.

Paul DeMott: Yeah. So those yeah, those types of like there’s just like it’s just very hard to predict. Like even if you know your business really well, you’d just be surprised at what the actual outcome of ads are. And now that they’re like running your ads with so much data behind the scenes, you can’t tell. So I think just at years of being wrong, it’s just so valuable to have that data.

Tim Warren: I think it’s interesting and I think that’s one of the reasons why Twitch streaming and so much streaming has become so popular is because it’s not polished. It’s not CNN and ABC where everything is perfectly done. News anchors, all the polished, all the graphics. It’s a guy with a mic and a computer playing video games with hilarious little graphics. And it’s low quality because it’s just what it is. Yeah, but it feels so much more genuine.

Paul DeMott: Yeah. Like CNN had like, probably has invested millions of dollars in figuring out like, what’s the best way to, like, how should all these little graphics on the screen.

Tim Warren: Absolutely.

Paul DeMott: And whatnot.

Tim Warren: Yeah.

Paul DeMott: How do we make this and then they train everyone to be as polished as possible, but they probably didn’t test. Like let’s just have organic conversations right in front of in people’s house or, you know.

Tim Warren: Well and the streamer and like it’s like so when you when you want to hear the presidential election report, you go to CNN, right? You don’t go to Twitch. But then. Right. Because it’s like.

Paul DeMott: Who knows, go to Twitch to watch someone watching the CNN.

Tim Warren: Yeah. And reacting to it. Yeah, but I think just to echo your point, like why did Twitch become so popular? I think it’s because people wanted the more just real raw, less polished thing. And it’s interesting in the landscaping, the same thing where people are like, I want the less polished thing because it’s cheaper. People wanting Twitch because it’s less polished, because it’s more genuine. So I think to your point, why you’re saying tracking is so important is we can sometimes totally miss based our own preconceived notion, right? If you’re the kind of person who wants the most expensive, most polished thing. That might be how you convert and that might be what you build, but your audience might want something totally different. Which is why you have to test a bunch of things. And so I’ll just kind of say this as we wrap up. One of the things we tell our clients is you can either be smart or you can test. And the smartest people know to test because we can’t be smart enough to know everything in advance. It’s just not possible. And so we learn the most through testing because we don’t know what we don’t know. We need to try this. And to your point, if you didn’t try all the landscaping ads with misspellings and a crappy website and it converts at ten times the rate your site, you’d never know why you’re just not crushing it in the market.

Paul DeMott: Exactly.

Tim Warren: And so that’s kind of point number one. Point number two is it sounds like as AI is going to disrupt, it sounds like the keys of how we can win are one better creative, better testing. Thinking about our audience, spending time to really think about the customer journey. And we’re going to have to spend less time actually pulling levers behind the scenes on budgets and budget strategies and campaigns. Google is going to do better at automating that, but it’s still not going to automate our creative and our ads and our tracking and knowing who are our best customers. Is that is that accurate?

Paul DeMott: 100%, yeah.

Tim Warren: What kind of as a parting thought? What about attribution tracking? And with AI changing, how important is attribution tracking and modeling going to be? And what should companies be doing for attribution tracking on their ads?

Paul DeMott: Yeah. So I think I’d say it’s really important because a lot of our platforms that we use today for digital marketing don’t communicate to each other. And so if you don’t have something in the middle that’s understanding how they all relate to each other, you could be missing really key insights. So a thing that’s really common that we see is like people run LinkedIn ads and they run them to a very like needle in the haystack type customer. So like a chief level officer at a marketing company, let’s say.

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: And they’ll be spending like tons of money per click and let’s say that’s the only customer that they can that they can get. But in the LinkedIn platform, they don’t see any conversion tracking whatsoever. So then they make the decision we need to turn off LinkedIn ads.

Tim Warren: Right.

Paul DeMott: This happens all the time, but in actuality, marketing, most of the time that customer buys from you. There’s many different touch points. They touch many different marketing channels before they convert and become a customer, correct? So a lot of times our customers will turn off LinkedIn because they’re looking at it in a vacuum. But really their marketing is this whole conglomerate of different things on the Internet. So what attribution tracking does is it helps you to understand what is driving people into the funnel. What touchpoints do people have. So that you can truly evaluate the performance of these things? Because even Google ads is just going to tell you who came to your website from ads and purchased, right? It’s not going to give you insights to that person. Came to your website 90 days later. They visited a LinkedIn ad because they remembered you. They clicked on it. Then they went to your website and they bought something. So because none of these platforms naturally bridge together, having a software in the middle that keeps track of it can help you understand the real journey that customers go on. Which is just incredibly helpful when you’re trying to decide how to put budgets and allocate different resources. Because you might know that certain things get people in the funnel, other things close people. It allows you to like to arrange like the perfect makeup of different marketing channels to get business.

Tim Warren: Love it. And at helium we use a tool called Attribution App. Is what we actually resell. It’s a G2 crowd rated tool. So if you have any questions on that, feel free to reach out. But guys, that’s all the time we had for today. So thanks for joining. This was the It’s All Just Marketing podcast. I’m your host Tim Warren. And Paul, thanks for joining us again.

Paul DeMott: See you guys.

Tim Warren: See you guys.

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